Source: https://linux-hardware.org/?view=os_display_server
Reporting is done by users who voluntarily upload their system specs via
# hw-probe -all -upload
Reporting is done by users who voluntarily upload their system specs via
# hw-probe -all -uploadSo not skewed at all…
Do you have a better way of measuring it?
In what direction would voluntary self-reporting of all system specs skew the display server statistic (and why)?Do you have a better way of measuring it?
No better way of measuring doesn’t mean this is a good way of measuring.
What way do you imagine would be more precise?
What way do you imagine would be more precise?
Unavoidable analytics, apparently. Yay?
Well do you want useful stats or not /s
But seriously, a lot of opt-in (that never get opted in to) data is insanely useful for developers, but it has such a bad stigma that we never get anywhere close to the amount of usefulness a larger dataset could provide.
Tbf a lot of that stigma has to do with trust violation.
A method that attempts to collect data from a randomized or representative population rather than relying on self-report.
The fact that you need consent to get this data would make a randomized approach impossible.
Yes. It just may be possible that accurate poll data on such things isn’t possible.
Steam hardware survey but that will skew towards gamers. That said, it would be a good indicator on how compatible Wayland is.
err, why? actually it can be skewed against wayland(wayland users tend to be more security aware), and why the suprise, KDE, GNOME are wayland from the get go, steam deck too, hyprland and sway etc
It can skew either way equally. We’re just left to do armchair psychology about the type of people who would submit data to this site. So the numbers are effectively useless.
Why would it be skewed? What would be the cause for a subset of linux users, that upload hardware probes with extraneous information about their display server, to skew the extraneous data?
Because a huge portion of the people willing to do this are already on Wayland, but I believe there exists an even larger percentage on X that are not submitting any data.
And another commenter said:
We’re just left to do armchair psychology about the type of people who would submit data to this site. So the numbers are effectively useless.
Because a huge portion of the people willing to do this are already on Wayland, but I believe there exists an even larger percentage on X that are not submitting any data.
What is the basis for that assumption?
And another commenter said:
We’re just left to do armchair psychology about the type of people who would submit data to this site. So the numbers are effectively useless.
So because one cannot know which type of people submit data to the site it should be disregarded? That’s basically saying any poll or questionnaire with anonymous yet unique answers are invalid. That’s a pretty bad argument.
Anonymous polls are indeed useless for several reasons.
Man I spent 4 paragraphs saying what you just said in one sentence. 😅
respects to “unknown” and tty users.
fuck display servers. All my homies love ASCII display tech.
Crazyy!
Btw I am XWayland free since today!
I have a list of recommended apps here
Some apps need environment variables:
Qt:
- qpwgraph
GTK
- GPU Screen recorder, I guess
Electron
- Nextcloud Flatpak
- MullvadVPN RPM
- Signal Flatpak
- (Element, I switched to the Webapp in Librewolf)
- Freetube Flatpak
You can use
xlsclients -lto detect apps using XWayland.Some may even want to run apps through XWayland on purpose, like KeepassXC for Clipboard access or autotype. Lets see how long it takes to implement all the needed protocols.
Wait, is it on a population of 5000 computers? Bruh, why are we even looking at this?
No the sample size is ~5000, which is pretty OK if representative of the population (big if though)
Given that it requires self-reporting from the command line, I feel like the people that are more likely to be on the cutting edge may be more likely to report as well
To the contrary, I would expect the sample to skew more towards people who have a heavily customized X session and strong opinions about window managers while drastically underrepresenting average GNOME users who stick with the default Wayland session. Someone who likes their custom setup can still be waiting for a Wayland equivalent while casual Ubuntu users have been defaulted to Wayland on new non-nvidia installs since early 2021.
People who voluntarily report usage are more likely to be new users, experimenting with Linux distributions etc. Greybeards like me will check out new stuff every few months or years, and won’t shout about it one way or another. We’ll probably not send statistics when prompted, either.
This isn’t prompted. To send your data, you have to install a cli tool and run it with 2 specific options.
I don’t think any new users are represented in the sample.
I doubt it’s representative of the population. Because it’s from self reporting, at best it’s representative of those who advocate their favourite platform, which is just a particular portion of the population. Though it would be cool to see Wayland surpass X
I tried switching to Wayland on Mint, it did not go well. Unfortunately I do not care to follow an hour long guide to figure out how to get it to run games properly.
Mint Wayland support is experimental and was released in Mint 21.3 ~3 months ago
The Wayland session isn’t as stable as the default (X11) one. It lacks features and it comes with its own limitations.
It was added as a preview for people interested in Wayland and as an easy way for them to test if they want to give us feedback.
A board was set up to keep track of Wayland development. It’s available at https://trello.com/b/HHs01Pab/cinnamon-wayland.
A dedicated Github repository was created for issues related to Wayland, whether they need fixing in Cinnamon, in an XApp project, a Mint tool or anything software project we maintain: https://github.com/linuxmint/wayland.
In terms of timing Wayland support doesn’t need to be fully ready (i.e. to be a better Cinnamon option for most people) before 2026 (Mint 23.x). That leaves us 2 years to identify and to fix all the issues. It’s something we’ll continue to work on and improve release after release.
Not really surprising considering that (IIRC) it’s the default on the Gnome variants of Ubuntu, Debian and Fedora
But keep in mind that voluntary data tends to be pretty skewed
voluntary data tends to be pretty skewed
Yea and a strangely (to me) large proportion of people seem vehemently opposed to apps even asking to collect usage data, which is incredibly helpful for developers, putting aside the more controversial things like privacy/marketing uses of the data.
Personally I don’t believe for one second that Wayland has actually surpassed the install base of X11-like display servers.
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With most of the big distros defaulting to Wayland and NVIDIA finally under control, I expect most new installs will be Wayland ( and stay Wayland ) by the end of the year. So the Linux noon numbers may be 90%. I would be surprised if Wayland does not hit 80% overall by the time we hit 2026.
I switched to Wayland the moment my distro went moved to KDE Plasma 6 because according to my logic: if things are going to be broken and I’m going to adjust to them anyways, I might as well do it all at once: shock therapy style.
Plasma 6 broke a lot of my desktop customization, but that is to be expected. And Wayland? It has been surprisingly okay. I am experiencing some keyboard-related problems that I can’t even begin to track down (sometimes the keyboard flat out refuses to work for certain programs, sometimes it’s the numpad). However, I am not sure if it’s really related to Wayland, so I’m withholding judgement.
How are you enjoying EndeavourOS?
… I actually use Arch. Sorry.
But really, I would have gone with EndeavourOS (instead of Arch) if it were not for my friend who really strongly advocated for Arch (even installing it for me—or rather, converting my Manjaro install into an Arch one).
If I’ve had any regrets in my Linux journey, it’s choosing Manjaro instead of EndeavourOS as my introduction to Arch-based distros.
Arch people REALLY hate Manjaro
-happy Manjaro user
And in my case, I kinda don’t like Endeavour OS. I installed it on my laptop to try it out a couple months ago. It looked to me like a convenient no nonsense installer for Arch with some nice defaults, then you stumble on their custom update/mirror manager nonsense. Then you want to use a printer and realize they left CUPS disabled, as if to give you an “excuse” to use systemctl. Then if you want to use Samba, you need to go out of your way to find a default config file. I’ve had to jump through more hoops and dealt with more quirky nonsense than with Manjaro stable on that distro.
It’s like it doesn’t know who this is meant for. People who want their hand held through a GUI for something basic as updating their system, or people who love writing their own config file for everything.
Might as well install Arch, really.
-Other happy Manjaro user
I just installed EOS a couple of minutes ago and realized what you are saying.
So, during install, you did not click on the box that says “firewall” ( selected by default ) and you did not click on the box that says “Printing support” ( not selected by default ). To you, that means that EOS does not know who it is targeting?
These seem like sensible defaults. Regular users should use a firewall. Many systems will not connect to a printer.
Clicking clearly presented checkboxes ( or leaving them as default ) at the point the installer asks you to seems pretty friendly. It is certainly a lot more friendly than having to know what pacman -S is and whatever the hell CUPS is ( I know what it is but “printing” seems a bit more newb friendly ).
Not setting stuff up at install time and then complaining that it is not installed the way you want seems….”odd”. Also, the SAMBA packages for EOS come from the Arch repos. The experience adding packages post install is literally identical between the two distros.
This is not a very compelling indictment of EOS.
I’m sure EndeavourOS is perfectly fine for the people who work on it and their core user base. That’s not my issue. It’s still happily running on my laptop. I just keep on seeing people say “Don’t use Manjaro, use EndevourOS! It’s much better.” But your average computer user would lose their shit at having to deal with those ^ issues. “You just had to enable it at installation if you wanted printing. You didn’t see the checkbox?! Oh mah gaaa” …Seriously? It’s not a checkbox to turn it back on if you miss it and should be opt-out to begin with. Are you going to tell me CUPs is a significant memory/storage drain and a gaping vulnerability in a residential network? If one’s not familiar with Linux, CUPS, pacman and Systemd it’s a huge headache for most people to get this working.
I just think that EndeavourOS shouldn’t be presented as a Manjaro alternative for your average person, when it’s an opinionated Arch-based distro with spotty defaults aimed at somewhat experienced Linux users that want nitty-gritty control over their system. (Users which, again, might as well be using vanilla Arch if that’s fun or important to them) And it has some weird update/mirror manager that prevented me from just using pacman to update my system at one point and I had to figure out whatever it was they wanted me to use. Never had this kind of crap happen to me in Manjaro. Nor was printing disabled by default. Nor were network shares hard to get working.
Yeh, I’ll wait until the bugs are ironed out and my distro (mint) determines it’s stable. No need to start asking for troubles when everything is working smoothly.
Then there’s ppl like me: dual 4k with Wayland on Nvidia in Gnome with VRR. Hoorah!
Just waiting for explicit sync and I will be complete.
Which nvidia, if I may ask
Obviously a fictitious one.
